Their might always be llms, but the dependence is an interesting topic.

> It's not that clear. Sure, hardware prices are going up due to the extremely tight supply, but AI models are also improving quickly to the point where a cheap mid-level model today does what the frontier model did a year ago.

I agree; I got some coding value out of Qwen for $10/m (unlimited tokens); a nice harness (and some tight coding practices) lowers the distance between SOTA and 6mo second-tier models.

If I can get 80% of the way to Anthropic's or OpenAI's SOTA models using 10$/m with unlimited tokens, guess what I am going to do...

Inference prices droped like 90 percent in that time (a combination of cheaper models, implicit caching, service levels, different providers and other optimizations).

Quality went up. Quantity of results went up. Speed went up.

Service level that we provide to our clients went up massively and justfied better deals. Headcount went down.

What's not to like?

And I don't really mean new businesses that are entirely built around LLMs, rather existing ones that pivoted to be LLM-dependent – yet still have non-LLM-dependent competitors.

> We just had a realization during a demo call the other day

These tools have been around for years now. As they've improved, dependency on them has grown. How is any organization only just realizing this?

That's like only noticing the rising water level once it starts flooding the second floor of the house.

So we thought, hmm, “wonder if they are increasing prices to deal with AI costs,” and then projected that into a future where costs go up.

We don’t have this dependence ourselves, so this seems to be a competitive advantage for us on pricing.

Many users will also seek to go local as insurance against rug pulls from the proprietary models side (We're not quite sure if the third-party inference market will grow enough to provide robust competition), but ultimately if you want to make good utilization of your hardware as a single user you'll also be pushed towards mostly running long batch tasks, not realtime chat (except tiny models) or human-assisted coding.

Can you elaborate on this? Is this something that companies would train themselves?

Basically a clever wrapper around the Anthropic / OpenAI / whatever provider api or local inference calls.

Years, is like a lifetime for AI at this point...

I'd be surprised if it isn't true for your use cases. If you give GLM-5.1 and Optus 4.6 the same coding task, they will both produce code that passes all the tests. In both cases the code will be crap, as no model I've seen produces good code. GLM-5.1 is actually slightly better at following instructions exactly than Optus 4.6 (but maybe not 4.7 - as that's an area they addressed).

I've asked GLM-5.1 and Opus 4.6 to find a bug caused by a subtle race condition (the race condition leads to a number being 15172580 instead of 15172579 after about 3 months of CPU time). Both found it, in a similar amount of time. Several senior engineers had stared at the code for literally days and didn't find it.

There is no doubt the models do vary in performance at various tasks, but we are talking the difference between Ferrari vs Mercedes in F1. While the differences are undeniable, this isn't the F1. Things take a year to change there. The performance of the models from Anthropic and OpenAI literally change day by day, often not due to the model itself but because of the horsepower those companies choose to give them on the day, or them tweaking their own system prompts. You can find no end of posts here from people screaming in frustration the thing that worked yesterday doesn't work today, or suddenly they find themselves running out of tokens, or their favoured tool is blocked. It's not at all obvious the differences between the open-source models and the proprietary ones are worse than those day to day ones the proprietary companies inflict on us.

Write code? No. Use frontier models. They are subsidized and amazing and they get noticably better ever few months.

Literally anything else? Smaller models are fine. Classifiers, sentiment analysis, editing blog posts, tool calling, whatever. They go can through documents and extract information, summarize, etc. When making a voice chat system awhile back I used a cheap open weight model and just asked it "is the user done speaking yet" by passing transcripts of what had been spoken so far, and this was 2 years ago and a crappy cheap low weight model. Be creative.

I wouldn't trust them to do math, but you can tool call out to a calculator for that.

They are perfectly fine at holding conversations. Their weights aren't large enough to have every book ever written contained in them, or the details of every movie ever made, but unless you need that depth and breadth of knowledge, you'll be fine.

- clean room, itself needing the infrastructure for it (size, airCo, filtering, electricity) and the staff to run and maintain that basically empty space - wafers to "print" on, so that's a lot of water and logistic to manipulate them (so infrastructure for clean water and all chemicals) also with dedicated staff - finally staff who would be able to design something significantly better than NVIDIA, Intel, Broadcom, IBM, etc while (and arguably that's the trickiest part IMHO) being able to get it good enough as at a scale that can be manufactured from their own fab.

so I'm wondering who can afford this kind of setup that can only then make use of ASML machines.

The whole setup rests on this, and it seems mythical to me. These guys have basically equivalent products at this point.

It's a delusion that customers are going to remain with the behemoths when a Qwen model run by an independent is $10/m, unlimited usage.

This is not a market that can be locked-in with network effects, and the current highly-invested players have no moat.

Could they be accurate? Sure, I think people who claim this is impossible are overconfident. But I would encourage anyone who assumes they must be right to read a history of the Worldcom scandal. It's really quite easy for a person who wants to be making money (or an LLM who's been instructed to "run the accounts make no mistakes"!) to incorrectly categorize costs as capital investments when nobody's watching carefully.

Its like being back in 1850 and you build the world's first amusement park where the rides are free or very cheap. People are like Amusement parks are the next big thing since Steam Boats! And tons of other rich people start to build huge amusement parks everywhere. The people who are skilled at making amusement park rides will increase their prices, and since the first amusement parks are free so they can get the public going to them demand will be huge.

But how sustainable is that? - well obviously we know from history that amusement parks did, in fact, take over the world and most people spent virtually all their time and money at amusement parks - I think the Crimean War was even fought over some religious-based theme park in Israel - until moving pictures came out, so it worked out for them, but for AI?